This will require a lot of context, so I apologise for the long-winded post. It's the context that makes this translation difficult. Basics:Looking for the best way (given the situation) to translate "People are weird." This will get printed onto a hoodie meant as a gift. At this stage, I'm considering 人間は凄い。 Context: (emotional teenage stuff, possible trigger warning but I'm no good with these things) The hoodie is meant for the teenage son of some friends. A remarkable boy with a big heart who's had to get smart early, and who likes anime. The thing is, he's been betrayed and treated rather badly by every adult in his family and most outside of it. Following some bad choices made by his parents, he's had to move to a small town far away and begin highschool in a school far below his academic level, where he is being badly bullied. He is depressed, can't talk to anyone, and gets told his problems aren't real problems, he shouldn't feel the way he's feeling, he should "just ignore them" and "stop being so sensitive". Because of the reasons above, I can't exactly have proper talks with him. I at least want to send him this personalised hoodie for Christmas, with this very short printed text that tries to summarise the message: what's happening to you is real, it's wrong and you don't deserve it. Going for "people" instead of "adults" because I find the latter too specific. "Weird" here is giving me a lot of trouble. (And I'm badly lacking nuance information on my already limited Japanese vocabulary, so there's only so much a dictionary can help me.) I'm not looking for "weird" in the sense of funny/odd, nor surprising/eccentric/curious, nor downright "disgusting", though it should carry negative charge. So certainly not 妙, おかしい or 怪しい (would 怪奇 be better?), unless I'm wrong about their nuances. Maybe just 変? I'm trying to keep it very laconic so it packs a punch. Any suggestions are warmly appreciated.
Brilliant suggestion. I would also consider a simple 人 over 人間.
I did consider that swap. 人間 does feel a bit too "distant" if you're going for something emotional.
I do like "人間ってさ… / 人ってさ…" the most so far. I feel like these kinds of trailing thoughts are a good fit here. They say a lot without saying much.
@むじな You could also try asking Japanese people. I've posted on HiNative a few times, and they were quite helpful.
Edit: Another suggestion: 人ってさ…変だよね。→ a more "complete" version, I guess. Maybe with ～な as the 語尾 instead of ～ね? A bit heavier, maybe slightly bitter. I guess you also have the option to drop さ or go with は instead of って.
I'm learning a lot reading this and feeling really grateful for all the effort you've both put into this!
This is certainly meant to be a bitter statement, indeed, and rather dark, but at the same time not really expressive - like a teenager reluctant to show vulnerability or emotion, holding it in, saying the bare minimum. Not bitter-reflexive, more like bitter-resigned-shut in. (Which is where the boy is right now.) I'd go for a less-is-more, barebone structure, pare it down to the core. That's why I'm hesitant about the suspension points and even the 語尾. I'd even drop the だ if at all possible! Whence my quest for a single determiner.* Am I wrong in where I'm aiming with this? It's the line of reasoning I'd use for translations normally, but that doesn't mean it works with Japanese. And urgh, the horror of having to rely on bilingual dictionaries. The ignominy, even.
Funny, my first instinct was to say just 人, but not knowing why I felt like that, I went for 人間. My instincts in Japanese are still very much misguided, so I'm glad to know at least one wasn't.
* That John Wick scene where the mafia dad calls him and pleads with him to try to get his son off the hook, Wick speaks as much as your average tree, and at the end of the call someone asks the mafioso "What did he say?" "He said enough."
Hmm, maybe you can go ultra-minimalist? Something like 人…変 or 人—変, even 人・変 (least standard). You can style the 三点リーダー to make them look cool (they would look best vertical). As far as I know 人変 isn't a word, so people should always parse them separately. These aren't really full sentences though.
人って変 → probably the most barebones you can go, no 三点リーダー and no 語尾. Less expressive though. If you just want to match "People are weird", that would be 人は変 → just a plain statement.
Have you decided on the placement? Font would also be quite important. You could even write it yourself and then digitalize.
For some reason I'm really fond of 縦書 (recently realised my 横書 looks terrible after doing all my handwriting practice vertically for a very long time). He's also very tall, so that would look good. If I do use suspension points, then maybe go the whole hog and use five of them! Particularly if the winner is 人ってさ. Maybe that superlong dash whose name I don't know (not the 長音符), used to let the sentence sort of hang and fade out?
The 変 , if used, will definitely be a different colour than the rest of the text and a more striking font (or bigger, if handwritten - I'll make a few tries with a 筆ペン). Also thinking of the impact for non-Japanese speakers, including the wearer (I'll include a note to tell him what it means, ofc): first some plain squiggles made of two or three strokes, then... big, bristly, complicated squiggle. This is so exciting - design is not normally part of my translations, but it can add so much to the impact and even tone!
So, assuming I understand correctly, if going for super-short solutions our runners-up are, in random order:
1) 人ってさ····· (or superlong-dash-of-unknown-name)
2) 人って変。
3) 人は変。
Any further advice, comments or voting on this will be received gladly - at the same time, you've both helped so much already, so please feel free to ignore my ranting, I feel bad for making such a big deal out of this.
I hardly know enough to offer my opinion on any of this, but I will say that my personal favorite is 人ってさ; I don't exactly know why--I guess I like the sound of it and the vague implication.
No need to apologize at all. It's so sweet and thoughtful of you to be doing this, and as someone who has been in some dark places in the past, I'm sure this will mean a lot to him. You're doing a wonderful thing
The first word that came to my mind was 不思議. It's pretty neutral and it's use to talk about thing that you can't understand. From the kanji, you get 不 (not) 思 (thought) 議 (formalize kinda in this context). One of the meaning of 議 is はかる (to measure, calculate) hence why I translated it by "formalize". Overall, you get the image of things that you can't put into thoughts. It can be use either for positive or negative things but does not really carry a negative connotation either.
変 is very neutral in this context for me. It doesn't carry any punch or lingering thoughts.
不思議 does create some lingering thoughts but don't have any punch either too so, I don't know.
"人間は不思議だよね" is like a typical sentence equivalent "People are weird" but it doesn't mean that. It's more like to "admit" that human are "weird", "complexe/mysterious being", "incomprehensible things", etc in a comforting way without saying that it's bad or good.
And because of that typical way of answering in that kind of context without trying to push a judgement in the same time, the "though it should carry negative charge." and " I'm trying to keep it very laconic so it packs a punch." part are very hard to translate/imagine in japanese for me. I don't see any of that being translated nor do I see "what's happening to you is real, it's wrong and you don't deserve it." part being translated so far... It just doesn't fit in japanese.
So... just a though but maybe, don't translate it? And explain the meaning to him like a kind secret between you and him? I think it would have a better effect than a translation. Because even if you manage to translate "what's happening to you is real, it's wrong and you don't deserve it." into a short message, a japanese wearing publicly that kind of message is even more unlikely. It would just make his situation worse than before. But it's in English? Well, just tell him to say to other people that it means "人間は凄いよね！" That's called 建前
Anyway, whatever you choose, I hope your thoughts will reach him and help him at least a bit!
@Inkheart: Thank you! I like that one too. Sometimes you can't reach people, but maybe, just maybe. I'm glad you say "in the past" about those dark things. Stay with the bright ones!
@Shamugan: It's strange, isn't it. A little like 建前, but different. I'm saying "People are weird", but I mean "it's real, it's wrong and you don't deserve it". And yet, I'm sure he can get it. Imagine a friend is sitting next to you silently, then just says "I saw that documentary on Otowasan Kannonji Temple again." Then they fall silent again, but if you know them and the conext, you know they're saying "work's been crazy, I'm so tired, I wish I could take a break, go back to the simpler things." A really 不思議な thing language is.
For this, I'm thinking more something "weird" in the direction of 分かりにくい or めちゃくちゃ. Makes you think, really: what makes us call something "weird" in English? That's a whole different subject, though.
Unless @ギョルギ九十三, @ポールおじちゃん, you guys or anyone else has more input, I'll play around with the current choices and see what they could look like graphically. Maybe post pictures too.
I guess the only thing I'd like to add is that 不思議 invokes a sense of "wonder" or "curiosity", and naturally leans more towards being positive rather than neutral. Like you don't quite get people, but you're curious to know more. Does that makes sense?
不思議 starts neutral, but trends positive.
変 starts neutral, but trends negative.
It implies some sort of, usually negative presenting, abnormality. Likely why it's used in words like 変態、変人、異変. If you look at other compound words that use it, it's always neutral or negative.
My vote is for 人ってさ·····, it's very natural Japanese, and fits the context very well. Some of the other options feel more like you're reading from a textbook. Only downside is that visually, it doesn't look very interesting. Since the person you're giving it to doesn't know Japanese, and neither do the people around them, visuals matter a lot.
I'd say pick whatever feels right to you, and looks visually appealing. I'd love to see some pictures :)
PS: You're thinking of 全角ダッシュ (U+2015), most of the time it looks identical to an em dash (U+2014).
Is the boy an English speaker? I thought he was Japanese and was answering with that in mind x)
But if it's not the case, why should you feel restrained by japanese language packed with japanese value? Just go for it and express what you want
All this time, I though we were talking about a japanese kid and I met a few like that, that were bullied. And trying to answer with western values just doesn't work. Worse, it can backfire.
But if it's not case, it changes everything, I would just go straight for something like:
"は？だれがおかしいなぁ？？ 俺じゃねぇ!"
If he likes anime, he could even found it funny. And it would also keep the weight and punch that you want (anime vibe but still with a meaningful message kinda). I would definitly go for something like that rather than the timid and mild way that japanese use. ("Timid" and "mild" from a western point of view, from a japanese point of view, answer like 不思議 is like almost the best solution most of the time)
At the very least not a Japanese speaker. Based on this line from OP "Also thinking of the impact for non-Japanese speakers, including the wearer (I'll include a note to tell him what it means, ofc):"
Take your time to find which one would be the best for him :p
Also to come back to "weird", I think "weird" is between 変 (the word 変) and おかしい but does not really exist otherwise. Also the kanji 変 doesn't feel judgemental at all compared to "weird" for me. Like in "大変だよね", it more or less means "Yeah, it's rought" but like 不思議, it doesn't imply that the situation is wrong or that there is something to do or change for me. Even 変態 doesn't feel that much negative to me (like "he is different"). 変 (the word) is slightly more judgemental and or negative but still way weaker than "weird" in comparison. When you say that someone or something is 変, it doesn't carry a strong meaning and it's "gentle" compared to "weird". おかしい, on the other, is far stronger than "weird" and can even be quite offensive. But it does carry that "Other things/people are wrong" part of your message. Also, you said that you want a "'weird' in the direction of 分かりにくい" and 不思議 is really just about that 分かりにくい part. It's literaly the japanese definition (like どう考えても原因や理由などがわからないこと or 想像のつかないことが起こること。)
So to sum up: - 変 (the word) really reflect that "not too strong" part of your message with a slightly negative tone - おかしい really reflect that "something is wrong and it's not your fault" part - And 不思議, that "分かりにくい" part
At least with my current understanding of japanese. Hope this help a bit!
Also hope that it will not ruin you with a series of hoodies
Alright! I put my thinking cap on and thought long and hard about the whole thing.
When it's hard to choose, it's often because you're going about it all wrong. So I figured: to this kid, right now, his fellow humans are horrible and incomprehensible. That's true. But he's not like that, and neither are a whole lot of the people he's going to meet in his life. Hopefully most of them. That's true too. Another thing that's true: whichever nuance of meaning you give to the word, from wonderful to grotesque, people really, really ARE weird.
So... here's my first draft:
Currently trying to find a way to give the font a very, very thick outline, so that I can do without a background colour. A solid rectangle of print is unpractical, but the characters are too delicate to last past the first wash without some padding around them.
Thanks! How did you know I was just installing Inkscape now? :)) (After getting completely tangled up in FontForge and various other misadventures.) I'm not that tech savvy - I just made the whole thing in LO Writer, then made it into a .pdf and .png. Was just trying to see how I can import an open-source Japanese font or individual glyphs into Inkscape. Oooor I could design like it's 1999 and... add each word as a text box.
(LE: Just realised I don't need to work with glyphs in Inkscape, d'uh.)
The 人ってさー was meant to be "floating" on top of the text background (will reduce transparency for that though and make the background a tad darker). That's all for the front. Might ad a huge red おかしい or 変 on the back.
